Radio interview - 6PR Perth Live with Oliver Peterson

Subjects: Peter Dutton’s divisive Woolworths boycott and the damage to Woolworths Teneriffe, the Australian Flag, and the opportunity for Australians to unite on Australia Day.

OLIVER PETERSON, HOST: Joining me in the studios this afternoon for the first time in 2024 is the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister and the Member for Perth, Patrick Gorman. Happy New year.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: Happy New Year, Oly. And Happy New Year to all of your listeners.

PETERSON: Have you had an enjoyable break? Did you manage to put your feet up over the last few weeks?

GORMAN: I did. I spent the entire break here in Perth, which was lovely. Took the kids to the museum, to the zoo, to the Bassendean Rail Heritage Museum.

PETERSON: Oh, good! It is good there isn't it.

GORMAN: It is good! Trying to explain to the kids, I'm like, 'politicians like me, they used to go on these trains back and forward to Canberra.' And my son thought that was a great idea. And I was like, Leo, 'would you like to do that with me?' And he was like, 'that doesn't sound like much fun, no.'

PETERSON: No.

GORMAN: But no, I had a good break and a reminder of what a beautiful part of the world we all are so fortunate to live in.

PETERSON: We are. And now it's getting back down into the business of politics. And I saw some tweets of yours yesterday. Just clarify for me, Patrick, if you don't mind, are you blaming Peter Dutton for the fact that somebody went and graffiti'ed a Woolworths in Brisbane yesterday? Is this the fault of Peter Dutton because he called on a boycott?

GORMAN: Well, Peter Dutton called for a boycott. He was the loudest, strongest caller for people to take action against Woolworths that would result - if everyone did what Mr. Dutton said - in 200,000 jobs being lost. And what we saw in Teneriffe in Brisbane was someone kind of jumping on board the boycott bandwagon, taking into their own hands, completely un-helped by Mr. Dutton.

PETERSON: It's a long bow, though, to say it's Peter Dutton's doing.

GORMAN: I don't think… I don't think it's that long, Oly. I mean, seriously, you had the Leader of the Opposition, one of the most senior politicians in the country, someone who's been a former cabinet Minister, was in cabinet with Abbott,Turnbull, Morrison. He's been around. He knows that his words make a difference. When he goes out, calls for a boycott, people are going to take him seriously. And what we saw is a 40-year-old gentleman in Brisbane who I think has now had a conversation with police, did take that very seriously. So, yeah, I think we would have seen, - because we're also seeing reports of abuse of staff working at Woolworths - I think things would have played out very differently if Mr. Dutton had just gone; 'well, actually, Australia Day is not about what you buy, it's about spending time with your friends, family, neighbours. It's about celebrating this country and all we achieve together.' If he'd taken that approach, I think we would have seen a different outcome; yes, I do.

PETERSON: So, this is Peter Dutton's fault that this goose - you called him a gentleman - but he went and went graffiti'ed a Woolies -

GORMAN: I was being ironic. I think, on this one, they're both gooses.

PETERSON: But are you elevating Peter Dutton's opinion now to too high a standard if you're saying that he can have that sort of influence over Australian people?

GORMAN: Well, it's the one policy he's announced this year, Oly. It's all we've heard - it is the one policy. You think you'd start the year with some new ideas. We've come out with some ideas around what we can do to get supermarket prices down. But Mr. Dutton's come out there with a suggestion of basically a boycott, which would result in - if people did what Mr. Dutton said - 200,000 people across the country who work for Woolworths losing their job. I mean, these staff who work at Woolies who are getting now abuse and having their jobs questioned and the value of their contribution; these people were the heroes of the pandemic. Let's not forget, these were the people who were rocking up when no one else was supplying essential services. It was just a few years ago we recognised how important our supermarkets were. And so, yeah, I did think Mr. Dutton went too far in his call for a boycott. It was a silly call. And I think the reason you can tell that it was a silly call from Mr. Dutton, is that he's been nowhere to be seen today. Where's he been the last couple of days? He called for this big call and I would have think if you believe in a boycott, if you believe in it so strongly, that someone should stop going to a business that feeds millions of people each day, that people should stop going, you'd think you'd back it up. He kind of started a culture war and then kind of abandoned his troops on the field. It was a bit weird.

PETERSON. So, you think it's a silly idea of his. Do you think it's a silly idea of Woolies, though, not to sell the flags?

GORMAN: Well, look, Woolies can make these decisions. There's plenty of places you can get a plastic flag from. And all I said is that Australia Day isn't about what you buy. It's not about the plastic guff that you have. It's about how you reflect, respect and celebrate this remarkable country we're all a part of. Yeah, I think there are bigger things that the Australian people expect us to be focused on, and Woolies can make that decision. I think they've even pointed out that if you want to buy it, you can buy some of their stuff online. They've still got their online shop. I mean, this is responding to consumer demand. What demand is or isn't.

PETERSON: John says, 'I stand with Peter Dutton. Patrick Gorman. You're a hypocrite calling Dutton divisive because the ALP continues a far left woke agenda, including ongoing race baiting.' What would you say to him?

GORMAN: I'd say: I love that we're in a democracy where someone I obviously don't agree with all of those sentiments, but I love that we're in a democracy where someone could text direct the host of 6PR Perth Live and say what they think. I disagree, I think if you look at our government's agenda, it's pretty basic stuff. Acting on household and supporting household budgets, strengthening Medicare for the future, building a future made in Australia by backing Australian manufacturing and doing those things that we need to do in terms of enhancing Australia's international relationships for our national security and for all those millions of jobs in Australia that rely upon trade. I mean, that's all pretty simple stuff. I don't think that's an agenda that deserves a particular brand other than common sense.

PETERSON: My guest is Patrick Gorman, the member for Perth. If you want to talk to him today, 133 882. On Australia Day, should it be on the 26 January?

GORMAN: That's our government's policy, which I support. We've got some 640 events happening around Australia that the Albanese Government is supporting. Got events here in Perth. We've got, I think in Geraldton, we've got a morning breakfast on the foreshore there. There's a cultural festival happening in Albany. We'll support all of those events because what I recognise in a democracy like Australia is there are different views about the day and the nature of the day. That's okay, because we're a democracy and people can have those views and express them. But what's important is actually we do it in a respectful way. Australia Day should be a day where we actually respect one another, respect the contributions that everyone makes to this country and then kind of celebrate what we can all get done together. I think it still is at the start of the year - and we started this interview by saying 'Happy New Year', even though we're well into January, but I appreciate it - is that Australia Day kind of marks sort of still that optimism and hope for what we can all achieve as a nation in 2024. This is a remarkable country. We've got incredible people. I'll be spending Australia Day Eve with the nominees for Australian of the Year. I'm really looking forward to doing that in Canberra and we choosing one of them to be that Australian that we celebrate for 2024 who embodies the absolute best of Australia.

PETERSON: And in that conversation, does it disappoint you though, then, that councils will cancel citizenship ceremonies? Because what you've just talked about, Patrick Gorman, is that euphoric feeling of what Australia Day is meant to be. And for a lot of people, being acknowledged as a citizen on that day is very important. But there's a lot of councils around Australia now not doing that.

GORMAN: What we saw before we made this very sensible change was that some citizens were actually having their citizenship delayed, because councils weren't holding ceremonies on that particular date, giving them a little bit of flexibility. And I think here in Western Australia in particular, you've got a lot of really small councils, quite small regional shires and councils, some very small councils here in the Greater Metropolitan Perth. Those councils, it costs them a lot of money and where they might be hosting both a citizenship ceremony and other community events. So, giving them a bit of flexibility is sensible. If you really want to get your citizenship on Australia Day, you can go to the City of Joondalup, you can go to the City of Perth. There are so many citizenships being held on Australia Day. I'll be going to the National Citizenship Ceremony held in Canberra. There are opportunities for people, but it's actually about making sure that more people become a citizen of this great country. That's the reason we did this change.

PETERSON: Jim says the 'Labor MP's are trying to walk both sides of the street over Australia Day. You don't want to offend either side and ended up offending everyone. And Patrick Gorman, you're now up to your neck in this mess.'

GORMAN: Well, I don't get out of bed to offend anyone. I get out of bed to make sure that I do my job. That's to listen to the Australian people, to implement sensible policies that improve the lives of all Australians. That's what I get out of bed to do. But I think also, you can actually have a respectful Australia Day, and that's what I hope for, for 2024. Is a respectful Australia Day where we respect that it's a day that actually does mean a lot to a lot of different people, including those people we talked about earlier who become citizens or even indeed, performers, performers who actually get out there and at those 640 concerts and events that are happening across Australia. It's a big, exciting opportunity.

PETERSON: If you want to talk to the Member for Perth. 133 882 to get the latest on our roads. Back in just a moment.

BREAK

PETERSON: Ten to four. I've got the Labor Member for Perth, Patrick Gorman with me. Lots of texts coming through, which I'll get to in just a moment. But we had this call yesterday – that Patrick, you'd be interested in - Peter.

[Excerpt]

PETER (LISTENER): I rang my local federal MP, Patrick Gorman, and requested an Australian flag, as I thought was my right to request. I was told by his office that only religious institutions and schools are prioritised by Patrick Gorman and that people like myself didn't qualify.

[End of excerpt]

PETERSON: Can't anybody get a flag?

GORMAN: Oly, I'm going to shatter the glass for your listeners here: no, not everyone can get a flag. These flags that we hand out from Members of Parliament's offices cost $74.65 each. If I was to give one to every one of my constituents, that's $13 million in the Perth electorate alone on flags. I think we can do better value for money than that. So, I prioritise in my electorate, schools - I've given them in recent times to Osborne Park Primary, Tuart Hill Primary School - the Highgate RSL, Edith Cowan University, provide them for veterans and, sadly, at times, for the funerals of veterans. So, we don't just hand out the large flags for everyone, because ultimately, what I want to do when I'm handing out a flag is to make sure that it's seen and flown. So, if Peter had a flagpole out the front of his house and others could see it, I'd probably take a different view. But if it was just to kind of -

PETERSON: He can't go to Woolies and get one, though. Where's he go?

GORMAN: I'm sure if you type in 'purchase Australian flag' into any of those online portals, you'll find plenty of places. There's an official flag supplier. As I said, they cost for us $74.65 each. That's the Commonwealth price. If he can get it better, cheaper, somewhere else, good on him. But what I would encourage, while we're talking about this on your programme: if you're at a high school, or a primary school, or a community organisation or an RSL, and the flag is looking a little bit tattered, do call your federal MP and you will get a flag. Because that's what it's there for. It's there for the community. It's a service for the community. Yeah. We get hundreds of requests from individuals, particularly around Australia Day and Anzac Day, and unfortunately, I can't justify spending Commonwealth resources on that. And I'm sure Peter would understand that. I think my office explained that to him. I do have a little present to give you, though, Oly.

PETERSON: What's that Patrick?

GORMAN: I've got the 'Guide to Australian Flags.' It's a book that was published by the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet. It covers flag protocol, the appropriate use of the flag, the history of the flag -

PETERSON: - because the flag should never touch the floor, should it?

GORMAN: It shouldn't, it shouldn't touch the floor. It shouldn't be up at night time if it's not lit. And because I'm a little bit of a flag nerd - which you've probably already sensed - and I actually happen to have the responsibility for Australian flag policy as the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister. But at Karrakatta Cemetery is the grave of Annie Dorrington, I've visited her grave site. She was one of the designers of the Australian flag, a well-renowned West Australian artist. And even on her grave, her final resting place, is a little model of the Australian flag, which is quite beautiful. It's clearly something that she was very proud of contributing to, literally, the fabric of this nation right here in Western Australia.

PETERSON: There you go. You learn something new every day. In the good words of Simon Beaumont; Glenys wants to talk to you, good afternoon.

GLENYS [LISTENER]: Good afternoon. I'm a little bit nervous. I cleared this with the producers and now I'm a bit nervous. I'm 90 years old and I'm legally blind. I can't really see very much, but I just wanted to wish Patrick a very Happy New Year to him and his family. And thank you so much for my ninetieth birthday card. It was a lovely surprise and I appreciate it very much.

GORMAN: Oh, goodness. Well, let me say once again; happy 90th to you. And now to thousands of listeners of Perth Live. That is very kind of you, too kind. It's one of the things I love doing every month, is writing a few birthday cards to people like yourself who've -

PETERSON: - It's a nice part of the job.

GORMAN: It is a nice part of the job.

PETERSON: Good on you, Glenys. And happy birthday from everybody here at 6PR. Rosemary in Inaloo. Good afternoon.

ROSEMARY [LISTENER]: Good afternoon. Am I allowed to talk about Australia Day and cash?

PETERSON: Go for it, Rosemary.

ROSEMARY: Pardon?

PETERSON: Go for it. Go ahead.

ROSEMARY: Oh, good. I was just wondering what's wrong with us, because we already had a referendum for Australia Day and majority didn't want to have to change the date. So, I don't know why we have to please the minority. And this subject comes up every year, every time near Australia Day. So you know, I just don't understand. And the other thing is cash versus credit card. I always try and pay wherever I can with credit card and I refuse to pay the fee. Aldi charges the fee and no other grocery area shop charges the fee you know, the big ones.

PETERSON: Yeah. And that's frustrating, isn't it? Is that something your Government's looking at, those merchant fees, because you see a price and when you go to tap, all of a sudden the fee goes up. Is that something you would like to see incorporated in the list price? The final price that you see to check out is the final price you're going to pay.

GORMAN: Well, retailers should disclose those fees before they ring up the final amount. That's really important. And they should display that somewhere clearly for every consumer. That's what's expected. I can't speak as to whether there's anything further being done, but I think I'd always encourage people know, without boycotting anyone, just shop around for the best deal.

PETERSON: Okay, we've only got a minute to go, Patrick. The clock's going to beat us. But I want to ask you quickly about two things. The 'Dullsville' tag raising its head again, and then you see this beautiful design on the Swan River for the Perth Convention and Exhibition Centre. That's in your electorate - should it go ahead? You'd love it.

GORMAN: Let's make it happen. As I say, let's squash the cockroach. The Convention Centre. Squash the cockroach and build a beautiful butterfly. It is a great design and I'd love to see that progress this year. Very encouraged to see the words of the Premier today. Perth's not dull. We all know that. We can always enhance it. We can always build more. We can always do more. And what I think about is, ten years ago, Perth was still the best place on earth. But we didn't have things like Optus Stadium. We've added to perfection, and that's what we need to keep doing. I'd say to the people at Crown in particular, they've got billions and billions of dollars in private equity backers. Why don't they get some of that money? Give us a great theme park or something. I've always wanted to see Marvel World or something here in Western Australia -

PETERSON: Some steam trains!

GORMAN: Some steam trains! Look, I don't know if I'm going to get much private equity investment in steam trains, Oly, but I appreciate your passion for transport. But yeah, look, we can always do more and there's always great opportunities, just like the Perth Convention Exhibition Centre. But, let's talk ourselves up and what we can achieve in the future, rather than tell a false narrative about what we are today. This is one of the best international cities in the world. It's beautiful. You've got unparalleled, natural beauty. So many interesting people, great career opportunities. And for anyone who's listening online outside of Western Australia; you're missing out.

PETERSON: Patrick Gorman. Good to see you. Enjoy the Australia Day festivities in a couple of weeks' time.

GORMAN: Thank you Oly.