Radio Interview - 6PR LIVE with Oly Peterson

TRANSCRIPT

RADIO INTERVIEW
6PR WITH OLY PETERSON
TUESDAY, 15 APRIL 2025

OLY PETERSON, HOST: Patrick Gorman joins me in the studio today, the Member for Perth, representing the red team, Team Labor, good to see you Patrick.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good to see you, Oly, I'll read nothing into the fact you're wearing a blue shirt. You are an impartial host of Pat-Cash, and I love coming in here. Love saying hello to your listeners and love saying g'day to Michaelia.

PETERSON: Michaelia Cash joins us on the phone, I think, from Canberra today, Senator Cash representing the Liberal Party. Good afternoon.

MICHAELIA CASH, WA SENATOR FOR THE LIBERAL PARTY: Good afternoon, I've been out in Eden-Monaro today talking 25 cents off per litre. Every litre cheaper under the Liberals with our candidate there.

PETERSON: Alright, so let's dive straight into this opponent of yours, Patrick, first and foremost, Sophie Greer along with Senator Jordon Steele-John from the Greens, they thought it would be a good idea to have a rave, a dance party on Anzac Day. Are they tone deaf?

GORMAN: Well, I didn't think that was the appropriate way to mark Anzac Day, with a political party fundraiser for the Greens Party. That was the thing, this wasn't just some event in a pub. This was a fundraiser, where they were charging people up to $1,000 to give to the Greens Party on Anzac Day. I didn't think that was appropriate. I was really, really shocked actually, I haven't seen something that silly or inappropriate from a political party in quite a while. And it was also shocking that it took so long, it wasn't Senator Steele-John who said that it shouldn't go ahead. It wasn't Adam Bandt who said that it shouldn't go ahead. They left it and waited for hours and hours after being called out for this inappropriate fundraiser, they left it to one of their backroom operators to issue a one line statement. I think when you make a mistake, you front up. And that's what Adam Bandt should have done. That's what the Greens candidate for Perth should have done.

PETERSON: Michaelia Cash, gutless that no one from the Greens will put their hand up, take responsibility or talk about it?

CASH: Disgusting, deplorable, completely inappropriate. And the bad news for Australia is it reflects the values that the Greens stand for. What is worse, most Australians don't understand there are 12 Greens in the Australian Senate. They side with Labor almost every time to run this country. But how tone deaf are the Greens in WA. We are a defence town. We are proudly the home of the SAS. And I mean, the Greens, you've got to be kidding me. They have complete contempt for the Australian Defence Force. They have complete contempt for the Australians who serve, or have served, our great nation in the ADF. But more than that, what they proposed to do on Anzac Day, that shows their level of contempt for those who defend our freedom. And the great irony for the Greens, given their radical ideologies at the moment is, if it wasn't for the people who defended our country, who died for our country, and today serve our country, they'd live in a fundamentally different place where they probably wouldn't have those freedoms. So Oly, disgusting, deplorable and completely inappropriate. But the bad news for Australians is there are 12 of them in the Australian Senate.

PETERSON: And they've got the primary vote out of about 13 per cent according to Newspoll yesterday, Patrick, there is the scenario here. There's all scenarios, obviously available when we go to the federal election, of a majority victory for the incumbents, for the Albanese Government. Maybe it's a Dutton Coalition win or it could be a minority government formed with the crossbenches in negotiations with the Greens. I know the PM is at pains to say there would be no deal done with the Greens, but to hold on to the power, you'd have to have a chat, wouldn't you?

GORMAN: I think your listeners would know that if they've watched the Senate over the last few years, that Senator Cash herself has cut a few deals with the Greens to block government legislation. They did that to block the Housing Australia Future Fund, amongst other things. A fund that now enables for people in my electorate to have an affordable place to call home. But Senator Cash and her colleagues cut deals with the Greens all the time in the Senate. Myself, the Prime Minister and every one of my Labor colleagues - 100 per cent clear. We are working for majority government. We will not do any deals, and we will fight every day to make sure we have a majority government. That's what's in the Australian national interest. That's why I'm out campaigning for myself in Perth. I've been in the seat of Griffith, where there's a very prominent Greens member who buddied up with the Liberals to block a lot of that housing investment that we so desperately need here in Australia. So desperately need in Perth. I've been out campaigning with Renee Coffey in Griffith, in the heart of Brisbane, trying to get fewer Greens in Parliament. Because I think that's good for the nation. And I really back my Labor colleagues, and I'll continue to do that every day, not just at election time, but throughout the cycle.

PETERSON: I want to come to housing in a moment, but Senator Cash, are you trying to form some sort of Liberal-Greens coalition, as alluded to there by Patrick Gorman?

CASH: That is almost laughable. I think all Australians know where the Liberal Party sits on the Australian Greens. If we ever have come together to vote out bad policy with the Australian Greens on a few occasions, I can tell you, it is for very, very different reasons. But Australians aren't stupid. They know that the reason that Labor is able to shaft legislation through the Senate, 41 bills shafted through with no debate on the final sitting day of last year because they did a dirty deal with the Australian Greens. It is a fact. All commentators now say, let's be very, very clear, these people already hold the balance of power with Labor in the Senate. All commentators say, at this point in time, Australia is heading for a minority government run by Adam Bandt. It would be an unmitigated disaster if they were to govern with Labor in the House of Representatives. But Oly, I'm actually glad that Patrick bought up the $10 billion Australia, the Housing Australia Future Fund. That was credited with $10 billion of taxpayers money. Do you want to know how many homes it has built and why we voted against it? Because it has not built one home. It was bad policy. Mr. Albanese misled the Australian people. That was bad policy. Australians can't live in an aspirational target. They haven't built one home under their signature policy. So why would Australians believe them when Mr. Albanese opens his mouth now and says to the Australian people, 'guess what? Under me, I'm going to build even more homes.' They cannot be trusted at all. And the fact that, under their signature Housing Australia Future Fund, $10 billion of taxpayers money, they haven't built one home.

PETERSON: Patrick, why not?

GORMAN: Senator, I think you and I should go down to the Hub in Perth on Wellington Street, where there are 37 Housing Australia, Future Fund homes that are now open and starting to be tenanted. I've been there. I've met with Thea. She is living in one of those homes. She's studying at Leederville TAFE, doing excellent work, studying to become an education assistant.

PETERSON: It's not many, though, is it, 37?

GORMAN: Well, that's just one example of one building in my electorate.

PETERSON: The target was 40,000.

GORMAN: If Senator Cash says one of her favourite words in this programme, Oly, in Pat-Cash, one of her favourite words is fact. And it is a fact that there are 37 homes at one building at the Hub on Wellington Street in Perth, and I'm inviting the Senator and any of her Liberal colleagues who want to see these Housing Australia Future Fund homes that are supporting people right across Australia. I will take them to one. The Senator can name a time. We'll go down there together. The Premier was there yesterday actually, celebrating the opening of that excellent new building, the Hub.

PETERSON: She said there's 40,000 was the target, how many were able to be constructed in this term?

GORMAN: Well obviously not as many as we would have liked. And the reason for that is because the Bill that we had to create the Housing Australia Future Fund sat in the Senate, was blocked, was sent off to committee, was blocked again by Senator Cash, by Senator Steele-John, by Senator Dorinda Cox and Senator Dean Smith, all of whom teamed up together against Western Australia to block that legislation, just like they blocked Help to Buy.

PETERSON: So on the housing policies of both parties announced over the weekend, if we're unable to construct the homes that we have set the targets for at the moment, economists argue, and we had Scott Phillips on the programme yesterday, that both of the policies of the Labor Party and the Liberal Party are not going to address supply, if anything, they're going to push house prices up, Patrick.

GORMAN: One of the things that we announced when the Prime Minister was very happy to be here in Perth launching Labor's federal campaign. This century, there have only been two federal campaigns launched from the West, both of them have been done by Prime Minister Anthony Albanese in 2022 and 2025. What we announced was that we will partner with the state and territories to build an additional 100,000 homes exclusively for first home buyers. I want to make sure that first home buyers get the support they need and get the opportunities that they've been denied over more than a decade of chopping and changing of housing policy. As the Prime Minister made very clear at the launch, for some five years, there wasn't even a Housing Minister in the government which Michaelia used to be a part of.

PETERSON: So Senator Cash, do you think that 100,000 target is unachievable? But how does your housing policy announced by Peter Dutton address the supply side of the issues?

CASH: In the first instance, yes, I do believe the housing targets are unachievable, but all commentators - the statistics are there. The Albanese Government has failed to meet their agreed target of 1.2 million new homes to be delivered over the five years to 2029, and it's now by 400,000 homes, they will fall short. Under Labor the aspiration of home ownership, it's become out of reach, Oly, interest rate and rents have had their highest interest increases in over a decade. Building approvals and this goes straight to the supply side, have fallen to their lowest level in over a decade. So what we propose is a comprehensive package. We will boost housing supply, we will reduce migration to sustainable levels, we will incentivise first home buyers, and we will take pressure off interest rates and rents. The way you do that, quite frankly, is you boost the housing supply by actually incentivising the developers to actually build. And that's on the affordability, we've announced as you know, first home buyers are able to deduct the interest cost of their mortgage for five years, for five years, saving around $12,000 a year. That is only for new home buyers. The Housing Industry Association itself says this should get around 30,000 extra homes a year onto the market that we would otherwise not have had, but then you combine that with the increasing supply through our $5 billion Infrastructure Fund. That's going to fund the things like roads, electricity, water and sewerage that are holding back housing developments, and that will allow around half a million dwellings to come onto the market in the next few years as well. But you also, in terms of the supply side of things, you've actually got to limit the demand. So under Labor, what we've seen over the two years is over a million people coming into the country, way higher Oly than we've ever seen before, and more than double than what we've seen before. It put pressure on the housing market. So what we've said is two year ban on foreign investors, but more than that, a reduction in migration from the record levels. So yes, our policy is comprehensive. It has those several parts, and it directly addresses the boosting of housing supply.

PETERSON: Alright, Senator Cash, we'll come back in just a moment. Patrick Gorman is with us, it's Question Time. If you want to talk to Pat-Cash, 133 882.

[Show break]

PETERSON: Just picking up on a little of what the Senator had to say just a moment ago, Patrick, Jim asks, 'is the figure of 200,000 new migrants since the start of this year true?'

GORMAN: What we do is we have a migration programme that has a range of people who come in. We have international students, and you know that that fluctuates from year to year. We have people who come in on skilled migration visas, and then we have permanent migration. We've actually brought permanent migration down. We've seen that after the pandemic, we want to make sure that we had the right fit. And what I always say about our migration programme is that it should be in our national interest to make sure that we have the skills and people that Australia needs. But it's always going to be in our national interest -

PETERSON: And on that, Graham asks, 'is it true the mix is 3 per cent roughly trades and 28 per cent family reunions?'

GORMAN: That doesn't sound right to me.

PETERSON: Of the top of your head you don't know?

GORMAN: That doesn't sound right to me, that that mix.

PETERSON: Senator Cash, do you know?

CASH: So under Labor what we've seen is, over the two years, is over a million people coming into Australia. This happens to be a fact. It is way higher than we've ever seen before under any government, and in fact, is more than double what we've seen before. And that's one of the reasons that we are seeing the pressure on housing for Australians, which is why we've said you've got to have the reduction in migration. You bring the people in as rapidly as Labor has done, the million people over two years. You do put pressure on the housing market. It does displace Australians, and it makes it more difficult, and that's why, going back to our housing policy, you have to have a comprehensive package that looks at boosting the housing supply, but at the same time, you've got to reduce the demand, and the way you do that is you reduce migration to sustainable levels and -

GORMAN: So why are you introducing -

CASH: - that is what we will do

GORMAN: So Senator, can I ask, one of the things that's been put forward at this election is Mr. Dutton's plan to have what's called the golden ticket visa. That's a visa where people can buy a visa because they have a large bank balance. That's something that we don't have at the moment in Australia. It's something that Mr. Dutton has said that he will bring back. The golden ticket visa, I think is not the right plan for Australia. And I do not understand why you're going to let people buy a visa through the golden ticket program. Can you explain to me, or anyone listening to this programme, why that's back on the table?

CASH: If you're talking about people coming into this country who can invest in our country and actually build a business and employ Australians, I'm not quite sure why that is a bad thing. But ultimately, as I have said, in relation to what your listener said, you have brought in over a million people into our country in two years. Patrick, in two years. That is the highest we have ever seen coming into Australia. As a direct result of that, the problem we now have is that Australians have been displaced from the housing market, and we are the only party to actually have an official policy. You guys have criticised it, that we will reduce migration from the current record levels. It is a comprehensive suite of packages in terms of housing. You've got to reduce the demand. And Peter Dutton has been up front with the Australian people, yes, we will reduce migration to sustainable levels to get more Australians into the housing market.

PETERSON: Alright, let's move on. Carol's in Rockingham, good afternoon.

CALLER: Yes good afternoon. Michaelia, good on you. Listen, I just wanted to know why the Liberals aren't pushing this so called Net Zero furphy, where they're destroying the environment to save it by pushing through these clearing in the Darling Range, not the Darling Range, the range over in Sydney there, to put in power lines.

CASH: We are absolutely, we have said. Chris Bowen is sending Australia down a path that, quite frankly, is going to destroy our country. His renewables only path, is breaking everybody's bank. Energy is the economy. And under Chris Bowen, you have seen more businesses than ever, than ever, go out of Australia. You have people who were promised prior to the last election 97 times by Mr. Albanese that their energy bill would be reduced by $275. But instead they are now paying $1,300 more. So absolutely, this is Chris Bowen's pipe dream. We are the only country in the world who is going down this path. And our plan, very simple, cheaper, cleaner, consistent energy, backing in renewables, backing in gas, gas, gas, and more gas, and then ultimately, nuclear. You might want to ask Patrick, why Tanya Plibersek refuses to make a decision on the extension of the North West Shelf project, which for 40 years has provided Western Australians with a supply of gas. But you're right. Chris Bowen's pipe dream, pipe dream at the bottom of the garden, and we are the outlier. We are the outlier, the only country in the world going down the Chris Bowen, Anthony Albanese, renewables only energy path.

PETERSON: Is that right Patrick? Are we the only country in the world?

GORMAN: Senator, the last time I checked, the United Kingdom is a country. France is a country. Germany is a country. Our friends in New Zealand are their own country. There's a whole world out there who know that going to a lower carbon future is in our economic interest. That's why I'm persuaded that it is the right path to get less carbon intense industries and more Australian manufacturing jobs as a result. And Carol, if I can just say on the question of making sure that people have affordable energy, myself and your local member Madeleine King voted for power bill relief. That's why you and every Western Australian got some $700 off your power bill. And I think it's also worth noting, Carol, that myself and your local member, Madeleine King, voted for that. The Liberal Party opposed it. They didn't want Western Australians to get lower power bills. They wanted to put their political interests first, which was to have people in financial pain. We pushed through. We pushed through that power bill relief. And there's another $150 on the way if Labor gets elected. There's nothing left if the Liberals get elected.

PETERSON: Alright, Pat-Cash, we got to wrap it up, we'll do it all again soon.

CASH: - left under Anthony Albanese, your bill does not lie. There is a liar in the Lodge. His name is Anthony Albanese. Don't trust what Labor are saying, I'd say to Western Australians, have a look at your bill. Your bill does not lie.

GORMAN: Senator Cash, enjoy helping Peter Dutton choose some furniture for Kirribilli House, where he said that he'd rather live than the lodge.

[silence]

PETERSON: Right, we'll wrap it up. Senator Cash and Patrick Gorman with us on Question Time.

ENDS